tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215116066445385512.post629149171463551207..comments2023-07-13T05:20:07.334-04:00Comments on Reflections from Broadneck Baptist: Where Do We Focus?Abbyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04823753643734462481noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215116066445385512.post-49007776287555624722009-10-02T22:18:55.913-04:002009-10-02T22:18:55.913-04:00This is my second attempt at a reply, as the 1st w...This is my second attempt at a reply, as the 1st was lost in stupid wifi at this hotel...<br /><br />I think some typos got in the way of what you were saying. Even so, I don't think this was addressing the question I raised.<br /><br />Jesus didn't put conditions on most of what he said, or was reported to have said, so that seems to be a red herring. (Love your neighbor, for example - are we going to start adding conditions and/or tags to that one?)Of course not! You clearly are aware of the problem of reading into potential omissions. Of course we should read into scripture with our experience to add nuance and depth, but it should probably not send the meaning in a completely different direction from a clear directive. Where do we draw the line?<br /><br />Again, I agree with what Stephen says - and what you say about marriage being more than paper and that abusive relationships must end. <br /><br />But my assertion remains, that we don't understand what is going on in this passage.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03507874062503931824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215116066445385512.post-45063341968457527462009-10-02T20:32:29.567-04:002009-10-02T20:32:29.567-04:00I think one way to reconcile the apparent absoluti...I think one way to reconcile the apparent absolutism of this passage with the realities of harmful relationships is to look more closely at the passage.<br /><br />Jesus seems to be rebuking Moses' law that permits divorce. In the NIV version, the pharisees quote the law to him as "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."<br /><br />'Send her away.' Poof. All done with that one. Not my problem any more. I think that's the kind of divorce the Jesus is condemning here. The idea that you can simply fill out a piece of paper and give up on the person you've promised to love and nurture for life. <br /><br />The fact that Jesus DOESN'T go onto to say, "even if they abuse you," or any other conditions is enough to keep me from making assumptions. Since he didn't speak directly about abuse or otherwise unhealthy relationships, I'm no going to assume that he meant to include them. I think he was just saying people shouldn't take marriage lightly. <br /><br />Trying to read the omissions of the gospels is definitely a gray area. Someone could equally argue that since he didn't make any exceptions, that there are none. But I think that's why we have to read Scripture within the context of our own experience of God. My experience of God tells me it's a safe bet that Jesus wasn't condoning abusive relationships, but rather the idea that marriage is no more than a piece of paper.Karanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215116066445385512.post-49984619280577913392009-10-02T10:09:44.707-04:002009-10-02T10:09:44.707-04:00Two things to say up front:
I couldn't agree ...Two things to say up front:<br /><br />I couldn't agree more with the need for what Stephen is advocating here. Secondly, I couldn't agree more with the course of action Stephen has outlined here for anyone (married, committed relationship, friends, family, of any age, gender, etc.) in an abusive relationship.<br /><br /><br />Where I have trouble with this passage is that it is one of the few that seems very straightforward. It seems too clear for that clarity to be ignored, if that makes sense. How do we take this passage and arrive at what Stephen and others rightly advocate? What do we know of marriage customs at this time and place? What impact does that have on our understanding of what Jesus is saying to the disciples and the Pharisees? Or is this a case where our social reality is so different from that of the 1st-2nd centuries that it is not understandable to us?<br /><br />I just don't want to get into trying to potentially adjust scripture meanings to fit into our lives and worldview. That is far different than establishing the scripture's context.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03507874062503931824noreply@blogger.com